Patrick: So you made this small game. There’s two reasons you could make a small game: Because you have no money, or, because a small game takes less time, so you can move on to the next project – because you have more and more ideas. So, which was your reason?

Kenichi: Both, equally. But you know, basically, game development takes such a long time – such a long, long time. We’re tired of it taking so long to make games.

Patrick: Me too. I don’t even make them.

Kenichi: Archime-DS took a short time, so, I can have fresh ideas. We want fresh ideas and short times.

Patrick: I understand. Good idea.

Kenichi: Good idea?

Patrick: I think so. I think the future of game development is smaller games. These big games like Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy... they take like, five years to make? Years, years, and millions of dollars. And – compared to the Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii audience – these big games have a small audience, and it’s getting smaller. So, the games are getting more expensive, and the audience is getting smaller. So, it has to stop.

Kenichi: [in Japanese; to Miki] Can you translate? If you have a big project with a big budget, the game has to sell, so you have to widen the appeal. Rather than that, if you have a deeper story and a smaller budget, you can make the game the way you like it, and it’s more exciting.

Miki: [in Japanese] Yeah, that’s right.

[laughter]

Kenichi: Translate it!

Patrick: [to Miki] Can you?

Kenichi: You know, she used to live in California. She can speak English very well.

Miki: No, no, no – it was twenty years ago, so I’ve forgotten.

Patrick: Twenty years ago? So, when you were five years old?

[laughter]

Miki: You’re kidding. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Kenichi: She’s from the stone age.

[laughter; Miki hits him]

[Miki roughly translates what Kenichi said, focusing particularly on the contrast between ‘wider’ and ‘deeper’, as in, a wide audience versus a deep game.]

Miki: ...but he would rather have a small audience and a deep game.

Patrick: So... more complex?

Kenichi: Complex?

Miki: Complex?

Patrick: No?

Kenichi: You know... the style of my games is not popular.

Patrick: It seems that way. They sell a small amount.

Kenichi: So, it’s necessary that I make small games. I have to.

Patrick: It’s a shame... I think the games you made before – like Giftpia, Chibi-Robo, LOL... at that time, the market was smaller, so they couldn’t sell very well. I think now that the market is bigger, because of Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii...

Kenichi: The popular market.

Patrick: Yes, so I think that if those games came out now, probably they would sell better.

Kenichi: I don’t think so.

Patrick: No?

Kenichi: Chibi-Robo, Giftpia and LOL have deep themes. I think they’re too deep to be popular.

Patrick: So you’re an artist!

[laughter; Kenichi waves his hand to object, but half-way, the gesture turns into a slight nod of agreement. He’s just accepting the compliment.]

Patrick: It’s possible to make a game with a deep theme, that also has a wide appeal. And some people will just play the game, but a few people will understand the deeper meaning.

Kenichi: I think so. I think so. But... [struggles for words] my titles are not casual. [scratches head and speaks in Japanese about language difficulty]

Patrick: They’re not so easy?

[Kenichi speaks in Japanese a little, then gestures for Miki to translate.]

Miki: Ken’s games have deep concepts, and maybe it’s difficult to understand such concepts. Archime-DS and other short games are easy and fun, and it’s easy to understand how the game works. But Ken’s games have deep concepts, and are difficult to...

Patrick: They’re not for a casual audience.

Kenichi: They’re not casual, and they’re not for... easy play.

Patrick: They’re for gamers?

Kenichi: No, not for gamers. I think gamers need more action – first-person shooters; action games. But my games are not action games.

Patrick: Definitely not.

Kenichi: I think that’s a very important factor in why my titles are not popular.

Patrick: So, you make games for a small audience?

Kenichi: I don’t think so. When I make games, I want everyone to play them. But, ‘everyone’ doesn’t want to play my games.

Patrick: It’s a shame. I think maybe if they had more publicity; if more people knew about them – not gamers; ordinary people – I think they would enjoy your games.

[There is some animated discussion in Japanese between my interviewees at this point, regarding their inability to talk about Skip’s business arrangements with Nintendo.]

Miki: Other people didn’t think we needed more publicity.

Kenichi: I don’t want more publicity, because... [more language frustration...] I think I belong to the counterculture. I’m not mainstream; mass-market. If I want my games to sell more, I have to make easy, casual games.

Patrick: And you don’t want to.

Kenichi: Mm.

Patrick: But Archime-DS is very simple and casual. So why did you make it?

Kenichi: I don’t know why I made Archime-DS.

[laughter]

Kenichi: You know, there is no reason. I just wanted to make it.

Patrick: So you weren’t thinking about, casual market, this market, that market...

Kenichi: No no no no.

Patrick: You just wanted to make it. Well, that’s a good reason. That’s the best reason.

Kenichi: There is no marketing for Archime-DS.

Patrick: No. Although, you have those videos, with that comedian...? Is he a friend of yours?

Kenichi: He’s Hashimoto-san’s friend; our friend.

Patrick: Is he a stage comedian, a television comedian...?

Kenichi: He’s a stage comedian.

Patrick: I remember those videos from Design Festa. What’s his name?

Kenichi: Elec-comic, as in, electric comic.

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